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Mt. San Jacinto Outdoor Recreation
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ajwoodzy
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 68
Location: Temecula
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 Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:13 pm Post subject: Peak Id |
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On our way to Marion Mountain, we lost the trail in a spot and ended up at an unamed peak (or so I think). Its located on the south ridge of Marion Mt. and is just south of the junction of the PCT and the trail to Wellmens Divide. Does anyone know if it has a name? It can be seen clearly from further off (Temecula). It only has a prominence of around 120ft, but Drury Peak and others have around the same as well. Thanks in advance!
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Hikin_Jim
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:35 am Post subject: Re: Peak Id |
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| ajwoodzy wrote: | | On our way to Marion Mountain, we lost the trail in a spot and ended up at an unamed peak (or so I think). Its located on the south ridge of Marion Mt. and is just south of the junction of the PCT and the trail to Wellmens Divide. Does anyone know if it has a name? It can be seen clearly from further off (Temecula). It only has a prominence of around 120ft, but Drury Peak and others have around the same as well. Thanks in advance! |
Are you referring to this knob (Pt. "A")? It doesn't have a name as far as I know. I make its prominence at about 60'. The saddle just north of it I interpolate to be about 9080' and the knob is marked 9144', a difference of 64 feet, so maybe I'm describing a different peak or ?
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ajwoodzy
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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Location: Temecula
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah thats the one. On Google Earth, it said that saddle was just around 9,060ft with the actual summit being 9,144ft. From the west, you can easily spot it and it looks like a shoulder to Marion Mountain. Should this be called a peak? Or is that pushing it?
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Hikin_Jim
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ajwoodzy wrote: | | Yeah thats the one. On Google Earth, it said that saddle was just around 9,060ft with the actual summit being 9,144ft. From the west, you can easily spot it and it looks like a shoulder to Marion Mountain. Should this be called a peak? Or is that pushing it? |
Google Earth may be more accurate than my interpolation, but even if Google Earth is correct, that's only 84 feet of prominence.
Is it a peak or not? That's very subjective. I sort of look at a peak as having about 250' of prominence or a mile or more of distance from the nearest peak and 150' of prominence. My scale is my scale and is not some widely accepted standard.
Miller Peak is referred to as a peak, but only has about 60' of prominence. I wouldn't call Miller Peak a peak. Pt. 9144 is a little more distinct, but I still wouldn't call it a peak. Calling Newton Drury Pk a peak seems like a stretch to me. I wouldn't call Folly Peak a peak either. That's just me. Your judgement is as good as mine. 
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ajwoodzy
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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Location: Temecula
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Hikin_Jim"][quote="ajwoodzy"]Yeah thats the one. On Google Earth, it said that saddle was just around 9,060ft with the actual summit being 9,144ft. From the west, you can easily spot it and it looks like a shoulder to Marion Mountain. Should this be called a peak? Or is that pushing it?[/quote] Google Earth may be more accurate than my interpolation, but even if Google Earth is correct, that's only 84 feet of prominence.
Is it a peak or not? That's very subjective. I sort of look at a peak as having about 250' of prominence [u]or[/u] a mile or more of distance from the nearest peak and 150' of prominence. My scale is my scale and is not some widely accepted standard.
Miller Peak is referred to as a peak, but only has about 60' of prominence. I wouldn't call Miller Peak a peak. Pt. 9144 is a little more distinct, but I still wouldn't call it a peak. Calling Newton Drury Pk a peak seems like a stretch to me. I wouldn't call Folly Peak a peak either. That's just me. Your judgement is as good as mine. :D[/quote]
I generally look at it that way to. But also, I look at difficulty as well (not just from the easiest route) For Folly, I can see that as a peak. Its a little further off, and can present a big challenge if climbing its north face plus getting to it is a hassle from any other route. Miller, ehh....you could climb its north face too, but its hardly prominent and easily accessed. But is looks impressive from down below. But then there is Drury. Its just a little knob that doesn't really have a difficult route to it plus its hardly prominent.
With Pt. 9,144, it looks prominent from far off plus the SW face is very steep with a few nice couloirs and with a head wall just above those couloirs leading to the summit block. However, being west facing prevents these from icing up. Plus its got steller views. Haha I really don't know what I am arguing here but oh well.
How about attaching a name to refer to this peak? I was thinking Cienaga Point because it lies between Strawberry and Wellmans Cienagas...
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Hikin_Jim
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| ajwoodzy wrote: | | Hikin_Jim wrote: | | ajwoodzy wrote: | | Yeah thats the one. On Google Earth, it said that saddle was just around 9,060ft with the actual summit being 9,144ft. From the west, you can easily spot it and it looks like a shoulder to Marion Mountain. Should this be called a peak? Or is that pushing it? |
Google Earth may be more accurate than my interpolation, but even if Google Earth is correct, that's only 84 feet of prominence.
Is it a peak or not? That's very subjective. I sort of look at a peak as having about 250' of prominence or a mile or more of distance from the nearest peak and 150' of prominence. My scale is my scale and is not some widely accepted standard.
Miller Peak is referred to as a peak, but only has about 60' of prominence. I wouldn't call Miller Peak a peak. Pt. 9144 is a little more distinct, but I still wouldn't call it a peak. Calling Newton Drury Pk a peak seems like a stretch to me. I wouldn't call Folly Peak a peak either. That's just me. Your judgement is as good as mine. |
I generally look at it that way to. But also, I look at difficulty as well (not just from the easiest route) For Folly, I can see that as a peak. Its a little further off, and can present a big challenge if climbing its north face plus getting to it is a hassle from any other route. Miller, ehh....you could climb its north face too, but its hardly prominent and easily accessed. But is looks impressive from down below. But then there is Drury. Its just a little knob that doesn't really have a difficult route to it plus its hardly prominent.
With Pt. 9,144, it looks prominent from far off plus the SW face is very steep with a few nice couloirs and with a head wall just above those couloirs leading to the summit block. However, being west facing prevents these from icing up. Plus its got steller views. Haha I really don't know what I am arguing here but oh well.
How about attaching a name to refer to this peak? I was thinking Cienaga Point because it lies between Strawberry and Wellmans Cienagas... |
"Cienaga Point?" Why not? Sounds good. Now let's see if it catches on.
Actually Folly Peak isn't too bad to get to. You can do it from the tram fairly easily. You can either do it from the summit of San Jacinto (point "A" on this linked map) by going straight down the ridge to point "C" or from the "trail saddle" (point "B") countouring along, dropping slightly, to point "C".
I've done both ways. "B" to "C" is definitely the easier, particularly uphill, but there's a bit of (relatively easy) XC navigation that you have to engage in. Going down from "A" to "C" isn't too bad if you're used to class 2/class 3 travel. Going up from "C" to "A" is a bit more challenging, not technically but in terms of exertion.
In my opinion, Folly is something of a disapointment. Folly is not apical, and there are so many trees on top that there are no real views. You feel more like you're walking in a forest than like you're on a mountain top.
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ajwoodzy
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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Hikin_Jim
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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If it says "Cienga" on Summitpost, it must be true. 
Camping is a little tricky: In the State Park, camping can only be done in designated camps with a permit for that camp. The State/National Wilderness Boundary basically goes right through the saddle north of Cienaga Pt. If you camp on the northern part of the saddle, you might be in violatoin.
In the Federal portion of the wilderness, you have a zone permit. You may camp in the zone designated on your permit only. There are a few established campsites, mainly intended for groups. Generally, you can camp anywhere you like in your zone as long as it's not violating some other rule (such as being too close to water, etc.). The zone map can be seen here: http://www.fsva.org/pdf/WildernessMap_2007%20II.pdf. I'm not sure how detailed the zone map is supposed to be, but it looks like you have to camp east of the PCT. The North Rim Zone would stop at this point ("A") on the map if the zone map is accurate. You might want to call the USFS and ask if you really have to camp east of the PCT (which would place the saddle N of Cienaga Pt off limits).
HJ
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ajwoodzy
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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Location: Temecula
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| Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Hikin_Jim wrote: | If it says "Cienga" on Summitpost, it must be true.
Camping is a little tricky: In the State Park, camping can only be done in designated camps with a permit for that camp. The State/National Wilderness Boundary basically goes right through the saddle north of Cienaga Pt. If you camp on the northern part of the saddle, you might be in violatoin.
In the Federal portion of the wilderness, you have a zone permit. You may camp in the zone designated on your permit only. There are a few established campsites, mainly intended for groups. Generally, you can camp anywhere you like in your zone as long as it's not violating some other rule (such as being too close to water, etc.). The zone map can be seen here: http://www.fsva.org/pdf/WildernessMap_2007%20II.pdf. I'm not sure how detailed the zone map is supposed to be, but it looks like you have to camp east of the PCT. The North Rim Zone would stop at this point ("A") on the map if the zone map is accurate. You might want to call the USFS and ask if you really have to camp east of the PCT (which would place the saddle N of Cienaga Pt off limits).
HJ |
haha that is true 
ahh, ok. I noted that info on the page. I am probably gonna go up in a few weeks so I'll find out then about the camping. Thanks for the info.
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ajwoodzy
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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Location: Temecula
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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I had another peak I had a name question about. There is peak just SW (I think) of Cornell Peak that is pretty pointy and has a fair amount of prominence. Does anyone have info on this peak? Like a name for it and then route beta?
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KathyW
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 1040
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Aren't Harvard and Yale over next to Cornell? At least that's what one of the Rangers up there told me.
Unofficial names, I assume, because they're just little bumps. |
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Hikin_Jim
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ajwoodzy wrote: | | I had another peak I had a name question about. There is peak just SW (I think) of Cornell Peak that is pretty pointy and has a fair amount of prominence. Does anyone have info on this peak? Like a name for it and then route beta? |
I think you mean SE not SW. If so, check out this map of the Cornell Pk area.
A = "the hump"
B = Cornell
C = Harvard
D = Yale
I don't have any beta/411 on Yale, but I don't think it would be terribly difficult from what I've seen up there.
Cornell to me is a far more interesting peak. Here's some route info for Cornell Peak. The guide says it is Class 2, but the actual summit is Class 3/4. The class 3 approach comes in from the east. It's pretty scary steep whey you get on the N side of Cornell. Hope you're not afraid of heights. Here's a fairly recent TR of mine that has some fairly detailed info on Cornell Pk: Cornell Pk (9750), Jean Pk (10670), & Marion Mtn (10320)
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Last edited by Hikin_Jim on Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ajwoodzy
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 68
Location: Temecula
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Hikin_Jim wrote: | | ajwoodzy wrote: | | I had another peak I had a name question about. There is peak just SW (I think) of Cornell Peak that is pretty pointy and has a fair amount of prominence. Does anyone have info on this peak? Like a name for it and then route beta? |
I think you mean SE not SW. If so, check out this map of the Cornell Pk area.
A = "the hump"
B = Cornell
C = Harvard
D = Yale
I don't have any beta/411 on Yale, but I don't think it would be terribly difficult from what I've seen up there.
Cornell to me is a far more interesting peak. Here's some route info for Cornell Peak. The guide says it is Class 2, but the actual summit is Class 3/4. The class 3 approach comes in from the east. It's pretty scary steep whey you get on the N side of Cornell. Hope you're not afraid of heights. Here's a fairly recent TR of mine that has some fairlly detailed info on Cornell Pk: Cornell Pk (9750), Jean Pk (10670), & Marion Mtn (10320) |
Thanks for the info. I also stumbled upon this Trip Report by Bob Burd -http://www.snwburd.com/bob/trip_reports/cornell_1.html. When I do Cornell, I will probably hit up Yale. Sounds like an interesting peak (also, its fairly prominent)
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ajwoodzy
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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Alright, I couldn't resist the unnamed pinnacles. So me and a friend climbed Yale, Harvard and Cornell. Yale was quite easy, but I would imagine it would be harder without snow. Harvard had a great little summit block. Both are class three climbs and very doable. I'll post a trip report when possible
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