Peak Id

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Peak Id

Postby ajwoodzy » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:13 pm

On our way to Marion Mountain, we lost the trail in a spot and ended up at an unamed peak (or so I think). Its located on the south ridge of Marion Mt. and is just south of the junction of the PCT and the trail to Wellmens Divide. Does anyone know if it has a name? It can be seen clearly from further off (Temecula). It only has a prominence of around 120ft, but Drury Peak and others have around the same as well. Thanks in advance!
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Re: Peak Id

Postby Hikin_Jim » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:35 am

ajwoodzy wrote:On our way to Marion Mountain, we lost the trail in a spot and ended up at an unamed peak (or so I think). Its located on the south ridge of Marion Mt. and is just south of the junction of the PCT and the trail to Wellmens Divide. Does anyone know if it has a name? It can be seen clearly from further off (Temecula). It only has a prominence of around 120ft, but Drury Peak and others have around the same as well. Thanks in advance!
Are you referring to this knob (Pt. "A")? It doesn't have a name as far as I know. I make its prominence at about 60'. The saddle just north of it I interpolate to be about 9080' and the knob is marked 9144', a difference of 64 feet, so maybe I'm describing a different peak or ?
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Postby ajwoodzy » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:12 pm

Yeah thats the one. On Google Earth, it said that saddle was just around 9,060ft with the actual summit being 9,144ft. From the west, you can easily spot it and it looks like a shoulder to Marion Mountain. Should this be called a peak? Or is that pushing it?
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Postby Hikin_Jim » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:36 pm

ajwoodzy wrote:Yeah thats the one. On Google Earth, it said that saddle was just around 9,060ft with the actual summit being 9,144ft. From the west, you can easily spot it and it looks like a shoulder to Marion Mountain. Should this be called a peak? Or is that pushing it?
Google Earth may be more accurate than my interpolation, but even if Google Earth is correct, that's only 84 feet of prominence.

Is it a peak or not? That's very subjective. I sort of look at a peak as having about 250' of prominence or a mile or more of distance from the nearest peak and 150' of prominence. My scale is my scale and is not some widely accepted standard.

Miller Peak is referred to as a peak, but only has about 60' of prominence. I wouldn't call Miller Peak a peak. Pt. 9144 is a little more distinct, but I still wouldn't call it a peak. Calling Newton Drury Pk a peak seems like a stretch to me. I wouldn't call Folly Peak a peak either. That's just me. Your judgement is as good as mine. :D
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Postby ajwoodzy » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:22 pm

[quote="Hikin_Jim"][quote="ajwoodzy"]Yeah thats the one. On Google Earth, it said that saddle was just around 9,060ft with the actual summit being 9,144ft. From the west, you can easily spot it and it looks like a shoulder to Marion Mountain. Should this be called a peak? Or is that pushing it?[/quote] Google Earth may be more accurate than my interpolation, but even if Google Earth is correct, that's only 84 feet of prominence.

Is it a peak or not? That's very subjective. I sort of look at a peak as having about 250' of prominence [u]or[/u] a mile or more of distance from the nearest peak and 150' of prominence. My scale is my scale and is not some widely accepted standard.

Miller Peak is referred to as a peak, but only has about 60' of prominence. I wouldn't call Miller Peak a peak. Pt. 9144 is a little more distinct, but I still wouldn't call it a peak. Calling Newton Drury Pk a peak seems like a stretch to me. I wouldn't call Folly Peak a peak either. That's just me. Your judgement is as good as mine. :D[/quote]

I generally look at it that way to. But also, I look at difficulty as well (not just from the easiest route) For Folly, I can see that as a peak. Its a little further off, and can present a big challenge if climbing its north face plus getting to it is a hassle from any other route. Miller, ehh....you could climb its north face too, but its hardly prominent and easily accessed. But is looks impressive from down below. But then there is Drury. Its just a little knob that doesn't really have a difficult route to it plus its hardly prominent.

With Pt. 9,144, it looks prominent from far off plus the SW face is very steep with a few nice couloirs and with a head wall just above those couloirs leading to the summit block. However, being west facing prevents these from icing up. Plus its got steller views. Haha I really don't know what I am arguing here but oh well.

How about attaching a name to refer to this peak? I was thinking Cienaga Point because it lies between Strawberry and Wellmans Cienagas...
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Postby Hikin_Jim » Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:29 am

ajwoodzy wrote:
Hikin_Jim wrote:
ajwoodzy wrote:Yeah thats the one. On Google Earth, it said that saddle was just around 9,060ft with the actual summit being 9,144ft. From the west, you can easily spot it and it looks like a shoulder to Marion Mountain. Should this be called a peak? Or is that pushing it?
Google Earth may be more accurate than my interpolation, but even if Google Earth is correct, that's only 84 feet of prominence.

Is it a peak or not? That's very subjective. I sort of look at a peak as having about 250' of prominence or a mile or more of distance from the nearest peak and 150' of prominence. My scale is my scale and is not some widely accepted standard.

Miller Peak is referred to as a peak, but only has about 60' of prominence. I wouldn't call Miller Peak a peak. Pt. 9144 is a little more distinct, but I still wouldn't call it a peak. Calling Newton Drury Pk a peak seems like a stretch to me. I wouldn't call Folly Peak a peak either. That's just me. Your judgement is as good as mine. :D
I generally look at it that way to. But also, I look at difficulty as well (not just from the easiest route) For Folly, I can see that as a peak. Its a little further off, and can present a big challenge if climbing its north face plus getting to it is a hassle from any other route. Miller, ehh....you could climb its north face too, but its hardly prominent and easily accessed. But is looks impressive from down below. But then there is Drury. Its just a little knob that doesn't really have a difficult route to it plus its hardly prominent.

With Pt. 9,144, it looks prominent from far off plus the SW face is very steep with a few nice couloirs and with a head wall just above those couloirs leading to the summit block. However, being west facing prevents these from icing up. Plus its got steller views. Haha I really don't know what I am arguing here but oh well.

How about attaching a name to refer to this peak? I was thinking Cienaga Point because it lies between Strawberry and Wellmans Cienagas...
"Cienaga Point?" Why not? Sounds good. Now let's see if it catches on. :D

Actually Folly Peak isn't too bad to get to. You can do it from the tram fairly easily. You can either do it from the summit of San Jacinto (point "A" on this linked map) by going straight down the ridge to point "C" or from the "trail saddle" (point "B") countouring along, dropping slightly, to point "C".

I've done both ways. "B" to "C" is definitely the easier, particularly uphill, but there's a bit of (relatively easy) XC navigation that you have to engage in. Going down from "A" to "C" isn't too bad if you're used to class 2/class 3 travel. Going up from "C" to "A" is a bit more challenging, not technically but in terms of exertion.

In my opinion, Folly is something of a disapointment. Folly is not apical, and there are so many trees on top that there are no real views. You feel more like you're walking in a forest than like you're on a mountain top.
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Postby ajwoodzy » Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:22 am

Alright, I went with Cienaga Peak. Check out the link. http://www.summitpost.org/mountain/rock/482935/-Cienaga-Peak-.html
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Postby Hikin_Jim » Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:43 pm

If it says "Cienga" on Summitpost, it must be true. :lol:

Camping is a little tricky: In the State Park, camping can only be done in designated camps with a permit for that camp. The State/National Wilderness Boundary basically goes right through the saddle north of Cienaga Pt. If you camp on the northern part of the saddle, you might be in violatoin.

In the Federal portion of the wilderness, you have a zone permit. You may camp in the zone designated on your permit only. There are a few established campsites, mainly intended for groups. Generally, you can camp anywhere you like in your zone as long as it's not violating some other rule (such as being too close to water, etc.). The zone map can be seen here: http://www.fsva.org/pdf/WildernessMap_2007%20II.pdf. I'm not sure how detailed the zone map is supposed to be, but it looks like you have to camp east of the PCT. The North Rim Zone would stop at this point ("A") on the map if the zone map is accurate. You might want to call the USFS and ask if you really have to camp east of the PCT (which would place the saddle N of Cienaga Pt off limits).

HJ
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Postby ajwoodzy » Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:25 pm

Hikin_Jim wrote:If it says "Cienga" on Summitpost, it must be true. :lol:

Camping is a little tricky: In the State Park, camping can only be done in designated camps with a permit for that camp. The State/National Wilderness Boundary basically goes right through the saddle north of Cienaga Pt. If you camp on the northern part of the saddle, you might be in violatoin.

In the Federal portion of the wilderness, you have a zone permit. You may camp in the zone designated on your permit only. There are a few established campsites, mainly intended for groups. Generally, you can camp anywhere you like in your zone as long as it's not violating some other rule (such as being too close to water, etc.). The zone map can be seen here: http://www.fsva.org/pdf/WildernessMap_2007%20II.pdf. I'm not sure how detailed the zone map is supposed to be, but it looks like you have to camp east of the PCT. The North Rim Zone would stop at this point ("A") on the map if the zone map is accurate. You might want to call the USFS and ask if you really have to camp east of the PCT (which would place the saddle N of Cienaga Pt off limits).

HJ


haha that is true :wink:

ahh, ok. I noted that info on the page. I am probably gonna go up in a few weeks so I'll find out then about the camping. Thanks for the info.
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Postby ajwoodzy » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:31 pm

I had another peak I had a name question about. There is peak just SW (I think) of Cornell Peak that is pretty pointy and has a fair amount of prominence. Does anyone have info on this peak? Like a name for it and then route beta?
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