learning from other people's mistakes on Skyline

General Palm Springs area.

Postby Florian » Mon May 27, 2013 11:24 am

Here is another photo of the sign. You can read the bottom better in this one ...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fboyd/2406281874/

-Florian
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Postby cynthia23 » Mon May 27, 2013 6:06 pm

Thank you for the photos Florian. I am fairly sure the sign was not stolen but was removed by the BLM, along with the Bighorn Sign. It was their way of signaling (I think) that they have no intention of backing down on the so-called land exchange, in which large sections of SKyline (along with many trails in the Santa Rosas) will be given to the Agua Caliente Band. (the EIR for this is likely to be released in the fall.) Removing the signage was a way of signaling they aren't responsible for Skyline anymore (although they still are, for now.) Remember, this trail doesn't 'belong' to anybody, officially--it's a hodgepodge of BLM,private, and Agua Caliente. That's why the trail is chaotic and there's no signage--it is (or, was) a route, not an official trail. Its unclear status was fine back when only a few people in the know traversed it; now that it's heavily traveled, the lack of clear 'ownership' is proving dangerous both to the environmental conditions on the mountain and to unwary hikers. I think it would be good, though, for hikers themselves to take responsibility for putting up a sign.

I will be posting more, again, on the proposed land giveaway, sometime soon.
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Postby Florian » Mon May 27, 2013 6:13 pm

The warning sign doesn't appear to be BLM. The line at the bottom says it's courtesy of the Parks, Open Space & Trails Foundation whomever they are?

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Postby cynthia23 » Tue May 28, 2013 5:30 pm

Yes, the sign was not a BLM sign but one put up (my understanding) by volunteers quite a while ago (it's been there at least since 04, when I first saw it). But nonetheless I think the sign was removed by the BLM, because it disappeared at the same time the Bighorn sign was removed.

btw, in December, just near the warning rock, I ran into two young men with a GPS-Ipad thingey, on which they were recording all the trail parts (including the shortcuts) for the BLM. They weren't BLM employees but college interns who were doing a college credit type volunteer job for the BLM. They were not locals (I engaged them in conversation and they told me all this) and were tasked with mapping out Skyline as it currently exists. I'm guessing this is for the EIR. Additionally, in January, I noticed some temporary trail markers on the section of the North Lykken where it joins the Desert Museum. All of this leads me to think the sudden disappearance of the old warning sign was related to the BLM and the proposed land giveaway. They are up to something though what exactly isn't clear. They aren't exactly a transparent agency, to say the least.
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Postby scotts » Wed May 29, 2013 10:37 am

Bureau of Loot(ing) Management
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Postby bluerail » Wed May 29, 2013 3:41 pm

My memory might not be the best, but didn't the sheep sign get pulled quite a bit before the death sign? Almost a year if I remember right.
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Postby cynthia23 » Wed May 29, 2013 6:20 pm

I don't think it was quite as long as year, but you may be right that it was at least several months. It could be unrelated, and I'm being too hard on the BLM :? But at the same time (as I remember, but again, could be wrong) new signs popped up at the bottom of Ramon and a few other places which said this was part of the San Jacinto Monument, blah blah. All of the sudden movement of signage suggested it was all done by one party (the BLM) but you're right, it could just be a coincidence. But no worries, even if the BLM isn't guilty of this particular pernicious event, they're guilty of lots of others :wink:
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Postby bluerail » Wed May 29, 2013 10:31 pm

Very guilty !
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death sign

Postby guest » Thu May 30, 2013 8:43 am

Hi,
For what it's worth, 3 of us, (1 from Trails Council, 1 from BLM, 1 from PS Mounted Police) put the old warning sign up at 1,750 ft. way back, can't remember when. I was a VP on the Trails Council, now defunct & replaced by other groups like Coachella Valley Trails Coalition.

Mounted Police wanted to minimize the amount of rescues that were happening, (even back then), so we consulted with other agencies & groups & came up with the sign. After some reluctance, (I'd imagine liability had something to do with it),even the State park decided it was a good idea to place the 12 essentials & the fact that people have died on the sign.
I chose to put it in an area not visible from the bottom, to not attract attention (by those finding out the route went all the way to tram, and hiking it without adequate preparation, etc.).

Not hear to argue about the best way to deal with the increased rescues & death's. Posts all over the web, including GPS coordinates, Perry's C2C site & all the other info, and we're at the place we are now. Of course there's a ton more people hiking the route today, but I'm also seeing a lot more ill-prepared hikers, and ego-peak-baggers on it then I did 10-20 yrs ago. Everyone's going to make their own assessment of what's best, and I realize almost all the folks on the board are well intentioned & want to make it safer.

The sign was placed in several ft. with cement & post-driver, so someone had to really work to remove it, (so my guess is BLM may have had something to do with it).

The new sign at the bottom was placed there to honor John Hollinger, founding member of PS Mounted police, and a few arrows to keep folks off the private property.
Strongly worded info at the bottom may help, but also can have the potential of alerting Museum trail hikers that Skyline even exists, they-by increasing the #'s on the trail, and possible rescue's.
One thing for sure, things would be a lot different if cell coverage wasn't as good as it is on this route.
Happy & safe hiking,
ss
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Re: learning from other people's mistakes on Skyline

Postby Hikin_Jim » Fri May 31, 2013 3:06 pm

bcrowell wrote:http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/CIA-Code-Expert-Found-Dead-on-Palm-Springs-Trail.html


From the above cited article:
In the past six months, four bodies have been recovered from the shadeless terrain above Palm Springs.
That's always sobering.

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