Hidden Lake?

Web site updates, comments, ideas for this message board.

Hidden Lake?

Postby ajwoodzy » Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:35 pm

I have seen this lake on Google Earth and have seen just a few pictures of it on other sites....Its South about a mile (as the bird flies) from the top of the tram. It looks like a cool little lake but I was wondering why I have hardly ever heard of it... Its not on most of the maps that I have seen....
User avatar
ajwoodzy
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:43 am
Location: Temecula

Postby Perry » Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:09 pm

I moved the topic here so we can discuss it without overly promoting this area to a bunch of hikers. Due to the proximity to the tramway there's potential that the area can get damaged (look how the tourists treat Long Valley). If the foot traffic increases or if there is significant damage to the plants, toads, water quality, etc. then the state park will close it to everyone. Many of the local hikers who know about this place tread lightly on the ground and tell only a few trusted people.

It raises philosophical questions. Some complain that they can't discuss it here, others complain about even the slightest reference to anything about Skyline, Hidden Lake, or the meadow in Tamarack. I think it's safe to say that most users here believe in the benefits of free speech but also believe in protecting the environment. In this case those two ideals are conflicting.

Some people may be pissed off that I didn't just delete this post altogether. But which is the greater evil: the general public or bureacrats? And if one is more significant, can we ignore the other entirely? Freedom of speech puts ideas in people's heads, but it also creates transparency and accountability.

A few interesting facts:

-The tramway was built by re-designating wilderness as non-wilderness. Ski lifts were proposed to Landell's Peak and San Jacinto Peak.

-In 2005 an ice skating rink was proposed for construction in Long Valley, as well as a people mover large enough to move motorized wheelchairs up and down the cement walkway. Yes, motorized ones. The ones with motors. And non-disabled people could ride it too.
http://8.12.42.31/2005/oct/11/news/os-peoplemover11

-When I worked as a park aide, the State Park avoided giving me health insurance by requiring all park aides to be seasonal employees. Ironically, I was required to pay into a retirement program, but I couldn't immediately withdraw that money after I got layed off. I had to wait a few months. But if you forget and wait too long you don't get it back ever and it goes back into the state funds. This has nothing to do with the San Jacinto folks. That's all Sacramento.

So in light of the problems inherent in bureaucracy, it seems reasonable that users here should be able to at least discuss the philosophical and legal issues in regards to Hidden Lake. Thoughts?
If you need help signing up as a new member, please send an email to Contact @ Mt San Jacinto . info (without the spaces)
Perry
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1271
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 6:01 pm
Location: The Desert

Postby Perry » Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:49 pm

Posting photos and trip reports would likely make the area more popular, so that seems like a bad idea to allow that here. If the State Park does close it, I don't know how fast that can happen, or how effectively that can be enforced.

As far as maps being accurate... One poster said this is not the cold war, and maps should be accurate. Those little green maps at the tram aren't very detailed, so I think omitting Hidden Lake makes sense. Now if people ask whether there are lakes up there, that's another philosophical issue. Technically it's a "vernal pool," as it usually exists in the spring time, but one could also argue that language is defined by how words are used and understood.
If you need help signing up as a new member, please send an email to Contact @ Mt San Jacinto . info (without the spaces)
Perry
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1271
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 6:01 pm
Location: The Desert

Re: [fragile place]?

Postby Hikin_Jim » Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:15 pm

ajwoodzy wrote:I have seen this lake on Google Earth and have seen just a few pictures of it on other sites....Its South about a mile (as the bird flies) from the top of the tram. It looks like a cool little lake but I was wondering why I have hardly ever heard of it... Its not on most of the maps that I have seen....
Alex, in terms of both the preserve and the vernal pool, there's not much there, but the area is ecologically sensitive, so people are discouraged from going there. We don't even talk about it much on this forum just so it doesn't get trampled. Good questions, but perhaps you may wish to focus your hiking efforts in the other more beautiful and hardier portions of the wilderness.
Backpacking stove reviews and information:  Adventures In Stoving
Personal hiking blog: Hikin' Jim's Blog
User avatar
Hikin_Jim
 
Posts: 4869
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:12 pm
Location: Orange County, CA

Postby Perry » Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:23 pm

I heard from a reliable source that it's officially closed to all except State Park staff and volunteers.

It has been a special place for some hikers. For others such as Hikin Jim, it's just a pond near a cliff. :D
If you need help signing up as a new member, please send an email to Contact @ Mt San Jacinto . info (without the spaces)
Perry
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1271
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 6:01 pm
Location: The Desert

Postby Rumpled » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:21 am

The link to the pdf fo the msjnha.org does not list this as a closure.
Neither does the state park pdf map, it just seems to be kinda half omitted there.

Is it signed as closed?

I've seen it on other maps.

How is someone supposed to know if an area is closed?

I understand it may be a sesitive area; but it's also a sensitive subject.

It reminds of a policy in Anza Borrego that you not go near sensitive biological and archeological areas; but they won't tell you where those areas are - just harangue you when you are discovered.
User avatar
Rumpled
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:15 am

Postby Hikin_Jim » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:37 pm

I wouldn't want anyone to miss out on the beauty of this spot: Image

If it's greenery you want, go check out Round Valley.
Backpacking stove reviews and information:  Adventures In Stoving
Personal hiking blog: Hikin' Jim's Blog
User avatar
Hikin_Jim
 
Posts: 4869
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:12 pm
Location: Orange County, CA

Postby ajwoodzy » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:42 pm

Whoa, sorry. I didn't see that it was moved. I was wondering if that was the reason why its been kept mum. Sorry to bring up such a sore subject.
The only reason it caught my interest was cause of the pic on google earth, thats the only reason I asked. Even though it is in sense a vernal pool, it is like Dollar and Dry Lake in the SGW. Isn't it?

Also, I saw some interesting peaks around the lake too, I was surprised that those aren't named either.

Thanks for the responses!
User avatar
ajwoodzy
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:43 am
Location: Temecula

Postby Hikin_Jim » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:49 pm

ajwoodzy wrote: Even though it is in sense a vernal pool, it is like Dollar and Dry Lake in the SGW. Isn't it?
It's far smaller and far more seasonal. Pond vs. lake. The Dry Lake area is still quite scenic even when the lake is dry.

ajwoodzy wrote:Also, I saw some interesting peaks around the lake too, I was surprised that those aren't named either.
Some of those peaks do have names that are commonly in use; they just don't have official USGS names. You can see here http://www.troop212.net/letters/MtSanJacintoSPmap2.pdf that two of the peaks on Hidden Divide are named: Divide Peak (?') and Landells Peak (9356').
Last edited by Hikin_Jim on Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Backpacking stove reviews and information:  Adventures In Stoving
Personal hiking blog: Hikin' Jim's Blog
User avatar
Hikin_Jim
 
Posts: 4869
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:12 pm
Location: Orange County, CA

Postby Hikin_Jim » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:50 pm

duplicate post; please delete
Last edited by Hikin_Jim on Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Backpacking stove reviews and information:  Adventures In Stoving
Personal hiking blog: Hikin' Jim's Blog
User avatar
Hikin_Jim
 
Posts: 4869
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:12 pm
Location: Orange County, CA

Next

Return to Announcements & Feedback

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron