Young Hikers Missing in Joshua Tree Since Thursday [7/27/17]

General Palm Springs area.

Re: Young Hikers Missing in Joshua Tree Since Thursday

Postby Ed » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:21 am

Thanks for the link, Cy. It is disturbing to me to see a picture of a search dog being carried out because its paws are burning. I wonder if their ability to detect and follow a scent is affected by the temperature. I would certainly think that your paws burning is distracting.

And regarding an earlier post made by Zip, why are some of them wearing helmets, rather than caps and hat appropriate to the heat? Wearing helmets at times seems to me to be an irrational modern style, rather than an appropriate safety measure. Yes, I understand, someone could tip over and hit his head on a rock. I still view helmets as being for things like falling rock in a bowl or chute, and wonder when I see people wearing them in other circumstances, such as on a ridge.

I have no firm opinion as to the cause of the disappearance, but I think Cynthia is pointing out evidence that is legitimate to consider. I am not sure the authorities would begin a criminal investigation in a case like this unless the family requested it.
Ed
 
Posts: 536
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:04 pm
Location: San Diego Area

Re: Young Hikers Missing in Joshua Tree Since Thursday

Postby RichardK » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:44 am

You can trust that the Riverside sheriff's office will look into the lives of the hikers for anything unusual: family relationships, personal conflicts, psychological distress, financial problems, etc., etc. It's their job. It's what they do.
RichardK
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:52 pm

Re: Young Hikers Missing in Joshua Tree Since Thursday

Postby Ed » Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:30 pm

RichardK wrote:You can trust that the Riverside sheriff's office will look into the lives of the hikers for anything unusual: family relationships, personal conflicts, psychological distress, financial problems, etc., etc. It's their job. It's what they do.


Yes. But I don't assume they are sitting around idle looking for things to do. They have their inboxes with other items, backlogged cases, and priorities. And the investigation would have to be joint with law enforcement in Orange County. It would not be irrational for them to wait until the SAR is completed. So it is rather early to say there is nothing here because law enforcement has reported nothing to the media.
Ed
 
Posts: 536
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:04 pm
Location: San Diego Area

Re: Young Hikers Missing in Joshua Tree Since Thursday

Postby bretpct » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:56 am

Sean wrote:I think it's a mistake to speculate the worst about Orbeso. The authorities are not idiots. If they had evidence against him, there would be a criminal investigation.

There is evidence, however, that these two were good friends out for a hike in unfamiliar terrain and they got horribly lost while being unprepared. Both were young, had dated and separated without killing each other. Nguyen clearly trusted Orbeso enough to remain friends and go hiking with him. Orbeso was a security guard, which seems like a healthy, life-affirming profession to me. Not that all security guards are angels, but if we're going by the evidence, my money is on a young man who respects life and women.

Furthermore, the JTree spokesman said footprints indicate these two may have been going in circles. And like others have pointed out, there are lots of rocks in Joshua Tree. Hard to check them all, or see shaded spots from the air. Maybe they wandered outside the search area and collapsed from exhaustion. Maybe they fell and hit their heads. Or maybe they became delirious, went to sleep under a random rock and never woke up. Very sad.


Agreed. So much unwarranted speculation. It's not difficult to succumb in the Mojave Desert in August.
bretpct
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:40 pm

Re: Young Hikers Missing in Joshua Tree Since Thursday

Postby RichardK » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:11 am

Ed wrote:why are some of them wearing helmets, rather than caps and hat appropriate to the heat? Wearing helmets at times seems to me to be an irrational modern style, rather than an appropriate safety measure.


When I do maintenance work on the Florida National Scenic Trail, I am required to wear a helmet. All I did was carry a post hole digger and plant blazing posts. Our last work session north of Lake Okeechobee saw 90+ temps and 70% humidity. At least, it's dry in the desert. Let SAR be SAR. If anyone knows how to handle themselves, it's these guys.
RichardK
 
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:52 pm

Re: Young Hikers Missing in Joshua Tree Since Thursday

Postby zippetydude » Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:17 am

Hi Richard. Thanks for your work on trails, wherever they may be. My thought with the clothing was to make the process safer for the SAR team. By the same token, I think you would be at less risk of a heat stroke if you were not required to wear that helmet in the hot, humid Florida climate. As there is no benefit to the helmet, it is entirely increased discomfort and a very slight degree of increased risk. The risk to the SAR members is considerable in a desert search if they are having to airlift out team members who are overcome by the heat.

For a formal group it seems like uniformity is important, but what I was suggesting was that the uniforms be safer and more utilitarian based on the conditions at hand. We have so many new choices nowadays with lightweight fabrics and ingeniously designed caps that allow air to flow through and little personal misting systems that I have personally used to stay cool all the way up Skyline in August...why not incorporate safety as a guideline in choosing uniforms?

z
User avatar
zippetydude
 
Posts: 2616
Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 5:40 am

Re: Young Hikers Missing in Joshua Tree Since Thursday

Postby cynthia23 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:20 am

I agree with you Zip, the history of uniforms is that originally utilitarian requirements eventually become symbolic and then so burdensome they're eliminated. While I can see the value of long pants in the desert, a helmet for non-climbers doesn't make too much sense to me.

And speaking of sense. Some of these posts seem to be suggesting I'm arguing it's unlikely that unprepared hikers would die of heat stroke in the desert in summer. Of course I'm not arguing anything so asinine--in fact nothing is more likely. (Half of my posts on this board are rants about the dangers of summertime desert hikes.) What is unlikely, and what has fueled speculation of a crime, on my part and others, is that ten days of extensive ground crew, dog, and air SAR searches in an area limited by back roads, the town of Joshua Tree, and the 4pm cell phone ping, have not found two bodies. That is definitely odd and hard to explain--although certainly not impossible. Another speculation I have--no more or less 'warranted' than one of foul play--is that the two sought shelter in a small but fairly deep crevice or cave, where they gradually lost consciousness and died. And some FB posts have said the two were planning on doing 'shrooms' to celebrate the girl's birthday. Again, no idea if that's true or just random FB bull, but if true, it certainly could cause people to act irrationally and do very bad things like climb down into tiny inescapable caves. Another idea is that they were so disoriented, by heat or drugs or darkness or all three, that they unknowingly walked right across a road-- and thus into an area SAR might not be searching.

For now it seems the SAR search is continuing, though some of the FB posts have said the family of the girl is pressing for a criminal investigation. I hope SAR and/or law enforcement uncover the truth, whatever it is, as soon as possible. I can't even imagine the torture of uncertainty the poor families must be experiencing.
Q: How many therapists does it take to screw in a light bulb? A: Only one, but the light bulb has to want to change ...
cynthia23
 
Posts: 1257
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:33 pm
Location: Rancho Mirage

Re: Young Hikers Missing in Joshua Tree Since Thursday

Postby Sean » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:40 am

cynthia23 wrote:Another speculation I have--no more or less 'warranted' than one of foul play--is that the two sought shelter in a small but fairly deep crevice or cave, where they gradually lost consciousness and died.


The latter is much more warranted than the former. All evidence so far points to them expiring while concealed among the rocks, perhaps outside the search area. No evidence points to foul play. Of course I don't have a crystal ball, and I'm only privy to facts made public by the authorities. I don't, however, go to unsourced FB posts from strangers for reliable information. It's very disrespectful to spread such unsubstantiated gossip which only serves to attack the reputations of the missing hikers and the authorities in charge of the investigation.
User avatar
Sean
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 10:48 am
Location: Monterey Park, CA

Re: Young Hikers Missing in Joshua Tree Since Thursday

Postby Ed » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:40 am

Sorry, Sean, I don't agree. There are enough things about this case that make the possibility of foul play a legitimate topic of discussion. Nobody is saying that it is 'the' explanation, or taking issue with your view.

As I said in an earlier post, I knew a guy who killed his girlfriend and then himself. Knew him fairly well, and it would have been unthinkable to me that he would commit murder, before it occurred. Afterwards, there was no question in my mind why it occurred. For the second time, a major relationship with a woman was failing. It is not uncommon.
Ed
 
Posts: 536
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:04 pm
Location: San Diego Area

Re: Young Hikers Missing in Joshua Tree Since Thursday

Postby Sean » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:22 am

Ed wrote:There are enough things about this case that make the possibility of foul play a legitimate topic of discussion...I knew a guy who killed his girlfriend and then himself.


Your personal history doesn't constitute actual evidence which would make similar foul play a legitimate theory in the present case.
User avatar
Sean
 
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 10:48 am
Location: Monterey Park, CA

PreviousNext

Return to Mt. San Jacinto & Santa Rosa Mountains

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 6 guests